Ripple/XRP- Attorney JamesMurphy/MetaLawMan Discuss Coinbase, Ripple, DebtBox, SEC XRPLV24

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Uh oh we're back with the one and only Is James Murphy met a law man they can't Hold him down Twitter couldn't hold him Down X couldn't hold him down YouTube Can't hold him down he's back how you Doing James I'm doing fantastic Brad uh So great to be with you you always bring The energy it brings the energy out of Me as well just to talk to you um and so It's been a while wonderful to be back On with you and if you don't mind I Really would like to start with a thank You to you um as well as the xrp Army And helping me get back on Twitter both Me and uh Dai the digital asset investor You know we were in The Penalty Box for Months uh doing all of these appeals and Getting no response of any kind uh Dai Was told that he is an impostor of Himself I was told they won't tell me What rule I had violated um and so that Was a little frustrating but anyway so We Dai and I together cooked up this Plan if I'm going to write this Comprehensive letter of what we have Been through and send it to Elon Musk And then uh hopefully it would you know Perpetuate and propagate on the Xplatform well that's where you came in And so you absolutely took that thing And ran with it and then you've got so Many followers who then reposted and Reposted that letter that I wrote was Viewed millions and millions of times

And uh shortly Therea Dai and I were reinstated on the Xplatform and I want to thank you uh Because you were kind of the first to Pick up the Baton and and publicize this You put it on your YouTube thing and Read most of that long letter uh and Then as I said all the wonderful people In the in the xrp Army has been who have Been so wonderful to me um you know Picked it up from there and and Propagated that thing and it went Everywhere and I have to believe that Was the cause of letting us uh back in So thank you thank you to all your Followers and the listeners of this Program uh that was really a wonderful Gesture and people say a lot of bad Things about the Environment uh within X and Twitter and My exper erience has been just a Tremendous amount of love and support Particularly um from xrp holders uh and So thank you thank you thank you hey uh James thank you you're such a big Contributor to this space and in this Interim of all of this ambiguity and Lack of clarity in this space You John Deon Jeremy Hogan and so so many others James violent I can't even list them all They know who they are you as well have Helped to guide us through all of these Very very difficult to understand cases We would be lost without you so it's you

Know this is an you know this thing goes Back and forth right it's it's not One-sided at all I was very glad to help And I was very glad that the community Kicked in and realized what was wrong You know seeing uh I I've been victim of Censorship over the years I I've Recently suffered a a minor censorship Issue with YouTube platform just because Of something was on my thumbnail right Freedom of speech is not it is an idea It is not something that's active in This world right now right right it's Quite it's quite scary but we are glad That you're back we're glad that the xrp Goat is back himself digital asset Vestor 2 so glad that you guys connected Got to know each other and we have a lot To go over today James I mean right well We got topics there's a lot of stuff in Court and the SEC has not been getting Their way we got coinbase we got binance We got the Ripple case we got debt box Case where you want to where you want to Start here well I guess we can take Coinbase and binance uh together those Two hearings were just a few days apart And both of them were uh the defendants Were seeking to dismiss the case early And I think people need to understand The way our legal system works it's Really really hard to get a case Dismissed at the beginning and you Having followed Ripple you know that

Garlinghouse and Larson attempted to get The case dismissed early and were Unsuccessful and then ultimately one on Summary judgment and so this is not an Unusual course I am hopeful you know I'm Optimistic uh that something very Unusual might happen here and what one Of the cases or the other gets dismissed Probably partially um so partial Victory Early hopefully um but me the judges are Very smart but they're not expert in how Crypto works and so therefore the the SEC made a lot of statements that were Not immediately challenged by the judges Unfortunately one of the best examples Was the the one of the SEC lawyers in The coinbase case said the reason that Bitcoin is not a security is because There is no ecosystem behind it unlike All of the other tokens uh so John Deon And I you know were sitting next to each Other in the audience there and we just Turned looked at each other and you know You're not supposed to laugh in court That can get you in trouble but you know Our eyes were rolling like how can they Say something so absurd and the problem Is the judge didn't contest that the Judge doesn't know that in fact the Bitcoin ecosystem is one of the largest Ecosystems on the planet and arguably is Second only to the internet itself in Terms of the scope of this ecosystem Where in order for transactions to be um

Validated there has to be a consensus That involves people and Mining in Nearly every country across across the Globe this that's an ecosystem and then All this building that's happening on Top of of Bitcoin with ordinals and Other other things happening there is no Question that there is an ecosystem and So um really troubling kind of Representations in in in in coinbase the Judge asked three times is the token of Security the first answer was no the Token itself is not a security it's code Then they changed the answer to say well Yeah you know the token embodies all of These Promises um and so it really is it Embodies the security and so they and Then they shifted back later to saying Well no we're not saying it's the Security so it was inconsistent and Contradictory but the judge is not an Expert in this so that was a that was a Little troubling you know and it wasn't Easy to call the U the SEC on it because There wasn't this constant back and Forth that you normally see in a hearing It was three hours of questions for you Two hours of questions for you and then We're pretty much done and So you I didn't come out of there with Tremendous optimism in either case that It's going to be dismissed entirely uh Right away I remain highly confident

That coinbase will win its case in due Course for a number of reasons but the Motion to dismiss is you know it's going To be a close call uh how that how that Goes and it is a serious thing to have a Motion to dismiss like you said it's not Something to just take lightly to assume That you could just go in on a whim just Get something thrown out it's not it is Not an easy process to go through so it Does sound like however because I did Listen to the coinbase Callin and oh my Gosh I mean it was just remarkable that First two hours of the judge just Putting the SEC on their heels just like I mean the questions really kind of Exposed a deep understanding to a degree Right judge obviously allowed some Things to be said that were like whoa What kind of willy-nilly stuff is this Right I mean because I think what it Reminded me of when I heard the SEC take These split stances it reminded me of Acting in an Unfaithful allegiance to The law what was said from Judge Torres In the case with the SEC versus Ripple And you know we're seeing this over and Over James like we're see like this is The this is the modus operandi this is The the way they're fighting crypto Cases which I'm standing here and saying It's this then I stand here and say it's That then I stand here and say and Depending on what case it's in this is

What they're doing And I can't I'll say this out loud I Mean you know what it feels like to me Is that this is how you get legal Precedent set in these Cases but it feels dangerous because Courts aren't supposed to legislate and It feels like the SEC is trying to Backdoor legislate this space through Presidential uh uh findings and rulings In these cases that give them the Ability to keep overreaching in this Space I happen to feel from where I'm Standing that this is the shortfall of Congress and Capitol Hill not doing what They're s there to do which is to create Legislation so we don't have to fall on The courts and some Rogue agency acting Under regulatory capture I believe and Remarking these cases in a way that's Trying to establish further ground for Themselves your thoughts James 100% Right Brad um it it is remarkable that we are At a level of dysfunction with our Government that we cannot come up with a Comprehensive regulatory regime and I Think there are a couple powerful forces Standing in the way but you know if you Look at it from a international context I keep going back to can you imagine 27 Different countries in the European Union got together and agreed upon a Comprehensive framework for regulating

Crypto and so crypto companies from all Over the world headed over there Including coinbase to set up shop why Because they want to comply with the law It's a lot more fun to operate a Business when you know you're making Money and complying with the law imagine That BR 27 countries they speak Different languages and they were able To come up with a comprehensive Regulatory regime under that MAA uh Standard do I love it no I don't love it But now you know what it is it's in Writing you have you know hundreds of People doing compliance in all of these Companies that their only job is to make Sure the operation matches the Regulation we have none of that here we Have a lie we have a Lie from our Securities regulator saying oh we have That here too when we know in May of 2021 Gary Gensler testified he didn't Just say it at to CNBC he testified to Congress there is no regulatory Framework to regulate crypto exchanges Period full stop and now he says you Know what on second thought we got all Of the authority we need and I can't Understand for the life of me why they Don't come in and register well the Reason is there is no path to register You can coinbase can't come in and say Hey we list all these tokens we'd like To register and and they'd say all of

These tokens are unregistered Securities Get out of here we want you to go to Jail it's not like come on in here's the Form sign it it's ridiculous so in any Event I I get a little worked up about That because what is being said to Courts is false on this score and it's And it's not right you know and think About it what if we had gone back in Time you know into even 2018 or 2020 and The SEC decided to do something very Very different and said we don't have This authority to regulate crypto assets Or crypto asset exchanges but we really Think we are the best equipped to do it And they constantly hit Capital Hill to Lobby for a set of regulations you know What would have happened we'd have a set Of regulations right now that's right They and they and they didn't do it Gary Gensler's first appearance in May May 6 2021 he said it that was the right thing To say he should have followed up and Said you know what not only that we've Drafted up something that we think would Work in the crypto space you know here's A proposed you know outline of Legislation that we could get behind None of that happened and so they engage On this uh regulation by enforcement Jihad where they take different Positions in different cases Contradicting themselves trying to Convince judges of things that are not

Correct under the law and they're Dealing with judges who are not experts In in the topic like you are and like Many other people are and so they can Make Mistakes um you know when they hear hey There's no uh unlike uh you know salana Or whatever there's no Ecosystem in Bitcoin and ethereum it's Crazy uh but you know hopefully they Don't get away with it for long I I hope I hope you're right too and I do believe Even though we're going the long way Around the mountain here James through The legal course of this and setting President because it does believe it Does appear to me to be that we're Seeing these different precedents the SEC is carefully choosing these cases I Believe that represent different Elements of this space whether it be the Kind of Technology it is whether it's Consensus bantine algorithm right uh Like uh uh xrp or Ripple is a company And xrp is separate and that whole Construct I believe at some point we'll See uh a legal case against uh proof of Stake uh company or token and then Eventually proof of work somehow we Already hear the the the the Teasingsexy um but what is really sad to The point that you're making here is That in acknowledging that they that the SEC did not have the power in testifying

On on Capitol Hill as Gary ginzler did That they do have the power at the SEC To do what they're currently doing they Could have as you said followed up Issued what they considered a one pager A bullet bullet point one pager as Guidance until it was passed as Legislation and Congress could have Simply used that guidance as their Framework to draft legislation look I I Mean I know you know this too and I say This for the audience here there's so Many different levels of people's Understanding in this Space you Know the technology is so young and I Can't even believe it like one of the People that I I really don't care for The way his tenure was at D he was Jay Clayton but he actually said it best you Know you can't avoid this technology you Have to embrace it him of all people Even knew this you can't ignore it it Will innovate around you and that's Exactly what's happening by companies Going overseas like you said 27 nations In the EU pass MAA or Micah regulations And we may not love all of it but you Know what they found a common ground and To that point James And I know most lawyers don't like to Speculate it's not really healthy Business for a lawyer right so uh but I Do know that it is interesting to me

Because we hear the Rumblings of Potential stable coin legislation by Possibly q1 of this year and they say if We don't get it by q1 which is April at The latest you're not going to see it Till 2025 do you think there's a real Good chance we could see stable coin Legislation well honestly I don't know What exactly was behind Maxine waters's Decision to kill it in the last Congress Remember it got very close the word on The street was we've got bipartisan Support for this uh legislation and then You know Maxine Waters killed it right At the end and and um McKenry said that Openly uh so is she gonna do it again I Don't know um does it make sense that we Have regulation of stable coins as kind Of a first safe step forward yeah it Does make sense and by the way people in Crypto want stable coins to be backed One one to one by liquid assets we want That we want audits we want proof we Want all of these things we're not Resisting this at all um just like we You and I all of us want the frauds out Out of the system anybody who commits Their time or their money or you know Brilliant develop development people Time money you know whatever skills we Don't want it into a fraudulent Ecosystem we want the frauds like Sam Bakman freed out that's why we want a Regulatory um comprehensive regulatory

Structure so that you can easily and Quickly identify those who are operating Outside of that regulatory structure and Get rid of them fine them you know do Whatever ban them from the industry That's what we want we don't want hey Let's not have any regulation and just Welcome the frauds to continue we don't Want that at all and so it's it's weird That this has been set up as like anti- Crypto army versus people you know Trying to just defend Financial Freedom Of Choice you know there there should be Common ground hey let's work together And get rid of the frauds let's work Together so that when you put your money With an exchange it's segregated and That's your money it isn't blended with Everybody else's and lent off to some Hedge fund that could blow up let's not Have that there is plenty of room for Common ground and it's really really Frustrating um that we're we're kind of Still at Square One well it is but it Does feel like you know the next year or So is going to be a very transformative Year it I mean I I know I I'm not this Not the first time I've said that but it Does feel like we're on the edge of Seeing that happen and I want to remark Just to close on you know stable coin Legislation and this topic here if we Get the legislation for stable coins by Q1 of this year it will be phenomenal

And look I know it's the on andof ramps It's a guaranteed backing right it would Be in a regulatory framework probably Credential regulation I would imagine And you know the larger part of this is If the legislation is truly clear James I try to impress on people to understand That it will be the reason Banks can Move to 247 365 because those stable Coins will allow them for the first time To activate holidays weekends all of it Instant movement of value and Everything Will Change immediately upon that Legislation being done properly and Passing so I want people to understand The real Impact outside of crypto right how That's going to affect the Legacy Financial system in general what a what A day that's going to be I don't I think People still think about you know stable Coins they just want the on and off ramp They're not really thinking about the Impact it's going to have on the rest of The world in payments and moving value It's going to be massive so I I hope we See it sooner rather than later yeah you Know what was interesting is g con who Was the Um chairman of the economic advisors or Something early on for for Trump came on CNBC now he didn't mention stable coins But he said you know with these Bitcoin ETFs coming onto the scene people are

Learning that there's this asset that Trades and settles immediately you know Unlike anything else and it could Dr The entire Financial system to a Immediate settlement system and he you Know was saying this is an obvious Positive because right now you know People aren't people aren't Understanding this when you buy a share Of the Bitcoin ETF it settles two days Later that means the money doesn't get To the sponsor settlement is the Exchange of the asset for the money it Happens two days later can you imagine That it's 2020 4 and it takes two days To settle a trade that you think happens Instantly because on your screen you're Seeing it h you're seeing your money There but it didn't it settles two days Later and then then they get the money Then they go buy the Bitcoin you know That's not a good system with a with an Asset that's that volatile um and I and I and nobody few people have been Talking about I heard somebody start to Talk about it yesterday um but you're Right this the the um stable coins would Would solve you know for virtually all Of this and and get instantaneous uh Settlement and in 247 trading yeah it's A remarkable moment if you know it when It comes it will come right it it was Just when it comes it's going to be Remarkable and I do hope that it's

Sooner rather than later all right let's Move forward now to uh there's the Ripple case the zaching off case which I I know you I think you have a ton of uh Uh followup on that one but I just want To remind people about the zakinov case Which was really a case that was here Before the SCC versus Ripple where a Gentleman named zakinov had bought some Xrp and about two weeks later literally Turns around and sells it for a loss and Then tries to sue Ripple for it being a Security he lost money on it basically And what's interesting about that case Is that I'm trying to understand how is This case still alive when judge Torres Has said secondary market sales are not Securities so where the hell is this Case at why are we still watching it Unfold yeah it's really unfortunate you Know I think you and I had this Conversation some time ago year ago or Something about one judge making a Decision is not precedent for any other Judge in any other district and while we Talked about it sort of as a general Proposition my goodness now it's playing Out live and in color in in California Where the judge is just ignoring the Fact that this asset is not a security When traded on the secondary market and That's what the case is about so this Case should not have proceeded and the Second thing is I believe John Deon

Attempted to get involved there and say Hey xrp holders want nothing to do with This the whole purpose of a class action Is when a large number of people have This common interest in achieving Something in court and then instead of Them having to file individual actions They can come together and file a class Action which is more efficient and have Their rights adjudicated all together But when you have a bunch of them who Want nothing to do with it it is Unsuitable for class action treatment so It's the whole thing is a little off in In how it's proceeding and unfortunately It's a court believe in California right That that is within the ninth Circuit Court of Appeals which is the most Liberal court of appeals and um and Permits you know class actions to go Forward and so that court that judge is Bound by you know decisions of the night Circuit which have been very liberal in Terms of Permitting class actions to go Forward and so it's a very different Setup than you've got in the southern District of New York where I don't Believe this case would have gotten Anywhere out of the blocks and so it's Really unfortunate then there's all this Compromise of people's privacy through Discovery trying to find out who's got Who's got xrp you know the that that's Just uh a again acting contrary to the

Interests of these xrp holders who don't Want anything to do with the case in the First place so against their will the Plaintiff's lawyer is collecting data on Them it's just should not have been Permitted I disagree with this thing Continuing uh very strongly and uh Unfortunately it's a very very liberal Um uh jurisdiction there and uh I don't I don't know how much farther this is Going to go it's very unfortunate it is Unfortunate and it's very odd and you Like you said you know judges don't Always listen to other judges in Different circuits and this is how this Works we have to hope that the process That's the scary part of this James Right you have to rely on the process And I mean you know we're all aware There's a tons of I'm not suggesting That everyone is corrupt in a legal System or in a government or whatever But there is a lot of corruption there Is a lot of chits and favors all of These things that happen we're all human Beings right and you know so you do Somebody a solid and they need you to do Them a solid this is the kind of thing Nepotism all this stuff you know these Are very real elements and I can only Hope that as we move through this Process that we continue to see the kind Of rulings that we've found so far Because they really support the idea

That the SEC is out of their Lane and That is most important speaking of out Of their Lane James okay another odd Scenario here is that after the ruling Came out with judge Torres the xrp in it Of itself is not a security what Happened in New York with the nydfs J Less than two months later um the New York Department of Financial Services Came out with an update to their green List now I have um been uh complimentary Of the New York Department of Financial Services for having a green list that The SEC does not have and this green List says if you're an exchange you can Offer these tokens to New York residents You're good if you want to if you want To uh list a new one then you've got to Go through a process with us which again That makes sense as well so I've been You know um complimentary of of How It's Been approached and so xrp has been on The green list um and so after judge Tores ruled that xrp traded on secondary Market is not a Security um less than two months later The New York Department of Financial Services updated their green list and Withdrew Xrp from the list it's no longer green Listed for residents of New York to Trade in xrp on any platform that has a Bit license that that can operate in New York so this struck me as kind of odd

Because Gary Gensler took a took the L Took the loss you and I went through it Line by line and it was a loss and a big Loss and an embarrassing loss and then The next thing you know this other state Regulator says no no no no now that xrp Has AC acquired Clarity the S security We're going to delist it this is what we Call a non seiter it does not follow at All in fact if it had not been on the Green list the decision of Judge Tores Would be a reason to add it to the green List not take it off and so me being a Semi retired lawyer with a little time On my hands thought you know what I'd Like to understand what exactly is Happened here um this is a u government Servant government agency and we're Supposed to have uh Sunshine laws that Allow citizens to understand why their Government does what it does so I sent a Freedom of Information Act to the New York Department of Financial Services Immediately after that press release Came out in New York it's called foil With an L instead of Foya with an A and It just means Freedom of Information law And so uh and it's very very similar to Foya and they have a deadline to respond And all I said was I would like to have Every single document slip of paper text Voicemail video chat or anything else That involveed the decision to d-list Xrp from the green list want all of that

Oh and the second thing I want is all Communications with any other agency of Government at any level including the Federal government uh or any other state Or any other agency anywhere in the World where they communicated to you About your decision about whether to D-list xrp and of course what I was Looking for there is whether the SEC had Influenced this decision because it Makes no sense at all to delist when It's clearly not a security and a Federal judge in this town where you Work in Manhattan said not a security And so anyway I so I sent this Freedom Of Information thing and basically so Far I don't have any documents so so far They have missed two deadlines that they Get to extend their own deadline so now The the the next deadline is the end of This month January 31st and so while I Am a lawyer uh and I have a license to Practice in New York I've retained a Lawyer who's an expert in Freedom of Information Act law cases and I'm not Going to let it go because what was done Here is quite bizarre perhaps Brad There's a rational explanation for this I cannot think of what it might be but I'd like to see the documents and see if In fact you know somebody put their Thumb on the scale and said look I know This is embarrassing to take it off the List when it's clearly no longer

Considered a security but we got to do It because somebody over here is is Applying pressure I don't know I don't Know if there was a political Consideration but I intend to find out And if it requires firing filing Litigation in New York uh that's what I Will be doing I tell you God bless you James I mean that you know that is such A this could be a real I mean you know It could be a real bombshell what you Want cover here because look I mean we Can't say that we know every reason they Would have decided to go against Green Listing that but as you said there is no Apparent reason no obvious reason to any Of us why that would have been done Unless I mean well you know I'd love to Speculate we tend to do a bit of that Here you know we know that there is a Bit of a hangup with that ethereum free Pass we know that Gary Gensler has spoke Out of school and said that Bitcoin was Uh a commodity and then didn't speak to The rest to the market we know that uh Hle law Fred RIS pooi went as far as to Force the SEC to admit they had not Ruled on whether ethereum was a Commodity or a security at this point so It is unknown right and then we have This idea that the case comes out with Xrp it's not a security and then there's This indirect what appears to be an Indirect push to the nydfs to delist

That it is very odd James it it is odd And it's kind of unfortunate that we Live in a world now where you've got to Have people like John Deon and Judicial Watch and Empower and these um you know The blockchain association chamber to Digital Commerce and and all that doing This investigation to find out what in The world is going on and why you know The government is supposed to be Transparent maybe I sound very naive at This point point but the fact that like Individual citizens have to get to the Bottom of stuff and then disclose it on On X to everyone so that they now know What happened you know you know uh Brad I'm a little older than you but you're Old enough to remember there used to be This concept of investigative journalism Where you would have actual journalists From The New York Times And The Washington Post and the API and Reuters Get to the bottom of stuff you know and 60 Minutes used to do that they would Get to the bottom of stuff and the fact That the New York Times you know it's me Instead of the New York Times saying you Know boy that's kind of weird that this Case was decided right here in our Backyard in Manhattan says this asset Which is an important asset with a big International use case is is not a Security and now it's delisted by the Main regulator here in New York somebody

Should be assigned to get to to the Bottom of this nope they're they're not In that business anymore so it's it's Crazy and so different from when you and I were younger where it would be like You you get the newspaper and go holy Cow they broke in another you know Another really important case oh you're Absolutely right the whole world of Journalism has been turned on its head And there are very very hard to find it Is a rarity to find you know uh it's you Know is a rarity to find an Investigative journalist that's truly An investigative journalist right and it Really comes down to Citizen journalists At this point where we are in this time And that's why look and I know Censorship's been a big issue for you It's been a big issue for me you know And we all see and experience these Things happening you know there's so Many layers it's not just crypto right There's so many layers you know with the The media the social media platform Censorship working as a third-party Outsourcing arm for the government and The administration it is there's Ai and The onset of AI to come and replacing People's images and their mouth having It look like they really said something But they it's fake but you can't tell It's Like we the polarity of this world feels

Really upside down and I know we'll get Through it but it is going to take some Regulation to get through it I know a Lot of people don't like to hear that Because most people are in this space Because they don't want any of that but We're not going to be able to move Forward collectively in this space Unless we have a clear regulation Framework and legislation that allows us Innovation to thrive and grow and people Can bring their money and understand What the rules are on the field because That's why they're pouring into other Countries now they don't want to wait Right and this is where we are we're Stuck in this Quagmire and that's one of The reasons I hope we get stable coin Legislation you know again it'll help Move us one step closer to This real integration into the Traditional Legacy Financial system Which is so very key because once that Happens there really is no going back Because once they feel the effects of That and because they've been fearful of It for so many years for more than a Decade they've been fearful of it but Once they truly embrace it understanding That there's only two or three of the Big Gatekeepers in the banking world That control crossboard payments and the Other 98% of them actually pay them to Get it done that is where things will

Change because it'll be the 98% that Start to take this technology up to be Able to compete and do a workaround on What the system has been for so long Well you're absolutely right Brad and And you mentioned censorship I know You've experienced it yourself I got a Quick story for you yeah I I wrote a Column uh about how Gary Gensler in my View was acting contrary to the law in Doing this regulation by enforcement Attack on the crypto industry and I uh You know kind of went through some of The recent Supreme Court cases where They've reigned in the the uh Department Of Education on the student loan thing Because that's Congress to decide Whether there's going to be student loan Forgiveness and then the r and then the EPA decides to shut down every coal Coal Mine in the in the country and uh the Supreme Court again said no the Congress Gets to decide an important question Like that and and so I went through Through all that and and in the end I Said I believe that the courts will Eventually reign in um Gary Gensler but The question is how much damage is he Going to do in the interim before he has Stopped for Good by the courts and so When the American Banker agreed to Publish my column I was surprised I Thought this is great I'm glad that the Banking Community is now going to read

My column well a couple of weeks ago I Get an email from the American Banker Saying that I've tweeted out the story With a link to the American Banker my Column that is a live link to the story And they say they demand that I delete My tweet take down the link immediately Because I am engaged in unlawful Activity uh so what's funny about that Is because I was surprised that they had Uh actually run my column which is not a Point of view that is typically Reflected in the American Banker I knew That I needed to protect that column in That space and so I bought a license to Publish on social media that story that Column and it's not like one of those Things where you pay 50 bucks for a Reprint and put it on the website I paid Them $33,000 for the license to publish that Column that's how important it was and They send me a an email and by the way They said that this demand originated From the editorial team that's their Term the editorial team at the American Banker was demanding that I take it down It wasn't like the sales office or you You know the chief operating office it The editor Wanted it down and it was critical of Gary Gensler and I responded to them Well yeah I'm not taking this Down um and you you sold me a a license

I'm using the license and people are Seeing your article you should be happy And they came back and said there's no Evidence of you ever purchasing a License and no one there's no record Here of any license of any kind for you Or this story meanwhile I'm holding all Of these emails there's like they're Like six or seven people associated with The American Banker who were involved in Selling this you know uh reprint right This republication right to me um and so In any event that strikes me as odd that Some it sounds like somebody did not Like that content and we're trying to Intimidate me into taking it down which Of course I I would not do so in any Event there's there's weird stuff going On uh all around I know you've Experienced it many many people are Watching this uh as well have Experienced it in their own life and we Just need to not back down I I think It's the answer Tom Petty baby I Won't Back Down you know what I mean that is That's what I'm talking about you know I Love that you have this fight in you That's but it's the fight is it's a calm Resolve right you have no no no no no no No no that's not right right and you Know what's nice is you don't get Explosive you get resolved like no no no No no I know this is not right and then You just simp start knocking out the

These people don't know who they're Messing with if they're they're coming Up against the metal La man they better Watch out what the hell is going on Because you have been one of those People out in this space shining a light On so many things I I want to highlight This before we wrap too one one of the It may have been the first time you and I sat down and spoke you made it clear That John Deon had forever more changed The way crypto cases would be fought Through the amas free filing and a class Action with it and I tell you that has Really stood the test of time what you Had said because in all of these cases We see amikas brief after amikas brief Filings and amikas brief filings Bringing more opinion into these judges Because this is a very special uh moment Because we're talking about technology Here so a lot of these judges as you Said earlier today don't have the deep Deep deep understanding about everything That's involved all the factors that you Must weigh in so these amus brief help Become these informing things so you're Not just getting two sides of the story So very important and you're the one That said that and I I I give you the Credit James because I think it's so Right every case has forever more been Changed in the crypto space the way it's Challenged well 100% and John Deon

Obviously is the one who who thought it Up and we emphasized when you and I Talked about it at first judges do not Know what to make of this they've never Heard of this that everyone pictures as The as the SEC as the advocates for the Investors in something that's gone wrong And that they are in the background Cheering on the effort of of the SEC and You know what historically that is Exactly how they did it you know and and They were being cheered yeah get the Fraud get me some money back you know so To have a have thousands of the token Holders come in and say judge please the Risk to what I'm doing here is the SEC Itself please please stop them um and so Now in coinbase and in binance but in Coinbase there's 10 tokens or let's take Binance there's 13 tokens and the judge Said at the hearing well how are we Going to try this case of whether these 13 tokens are securities when you Haven't sued any of the issuers of the Tokens how's that possible you know and It's a bunch of double talk but I can Tell you this if John or somebody it's Unfortunate John's got to do everything In this space but if somebody comes in With token holders for for thousands of Token holders for each of the 13 the Judge is gonna be like we're not doing This we are we are not gonna so I'm Saying if this case gets passed um a uh

Motion to dismiss there will be the Opportunity for John or somebody to come In and do exactly the same thing and Based on what that judge said at that Hearing she will be very receptive to We're not going to do this we're not Going we we'll have in binance we'll Have a trial if it comes to that the BNB Token that was issued by binance and That's it I think is is where she would Go if somebody like John comes in and Does that work 100 per. and and shout Out to John Deon and everything he does It's just remarkable what this guy has Been doing I don't know how he does it I Don't know what he's running on sleep I Don't you know I I don't even know when This guy has time to sleep I you know Who knows I mean he's just he's been an Incredible powerful figure since the day He showed up and so of you and speaking Of That we know that we're tackling all These major conversations because There's so many developments in these Cases that are happening with the SEC Taking up at the courts and we Understand that we're starting to see These little pictures and windows show Up that are kind of you know really Giving us this kind of outline of where Things may end up and start to get a Picture of how the space could look in Another three to five years that's why I

Believe this year is going to be one of The most important conversations ever And it will be happening at xrp Las Vegas and James I'm hoping that you will Come join us uh at xrp Las Vegas and be On stage with us and John Deon and Others to have a very critical Conversation about the legal process the Current cases the state of where things Are with crypto what say you my Friend Brad I am in for ex RP Las Vegas 2 I heard so much about the first one so Much fun was had so much learning and Connection with people and in this past Year I've gotten to know John Deon well I got to meet Dai as we worked our our Strategy to get reinstated out of the Penalty Box and of course I've learned So much from you and being on your show And watching your uh everything you Publish and so I'm really excited about Being there and so Count Me In I'm Looking forward to it oh well we're Super excited and listen you're going to Be on stage along with perryan boring From the Chamber of digital Commerce and Then you're gonna be on stage we got Honorable Christian Carlo former Chairman of the cftc co-founder of the Digital dollar project for the United States we're talking about David Schwarz The CTO Ripple on stage uh look there's So many others the CEO of uphold will be There the CEO of I trust will be there

John deon's going to be there Jeremy Hogan's going to appear virtually us You're going to be on stage this is Going to be a don't miss event I'm Telling you and there's more to come I Can't say it because I don't like to say It till the fish is in the boat and it's Going to be remarkable but the fact that We got you on board is amazing James Thank you so much man I'm in looking Forward to it I haven't met you in Person yet Brad uh but uh it sounds like A fantastic time and I will be there and Uh and really really really looking Forward to it oh so were we James thank You so much do you have any final Thoughts before we Go uh no I don't but uh I just really Love the enthusiasm you bring to this Topic the first time you and I were on Together I came on and said look I'm on Here because I just got on to uh Twitter And I'm amazed at the level of of Understanding and debate And the facts in the xrp community and So that so that's what I said to you When I when I arrived it's like it's Amazing um that there's really a spirit Of learning you know and curiosity about The world and how it's going to develop Uh in terms of our financial system and Everything else and so it's really Wonderful that I I've you know been Welcomed uh into it a little bit and uh

And so that's why I look look so forward To meeting a lot more people in Las Vegas well you know what we feel the Same way about you James because like I Said in the earlier conversation you John Deon James Fon so many other Jeremy Hogan and so many others have been so Critical in helping guide us through This process and to kind of educate us Up with the you know the with the uh uh What do you call it the cliff notes of Most of these cases right so we can kind Of hang on and keep some understanding Through this process it is a EB and flow It goes back and forth Uh we appreciate you James and don't go Away we will talk to you off camera uh Thank you so much for being here James Murphy metal law man thank you


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