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All right we are here with the one and Only Graham rodford here from ARX Graham How are you today I'm amazing cheers for Having me it's great to be here well you Know what you are amazing because I know You don't feel your best right now but You show up and I really appreciate that Man and that just speaks to you and how Hard a working guy you are so tell us a Little bit about Arch a and what you Guys Do yeah sure so uh we set up in 2018 so We had this Vision I guess which seems Less crazy now but back then everyone Thought it was slightly crazy every Single asset moving on chain so you know Not just everything in financial Services I think every asset in the World belongs on chain but obviously our Focus is is in financial services so I Think everything that we're used to Trading whether it's equities debt Warrants certificates whatever your Instrument is it's moving on chain and So is every piece of the financial Infrastructure that it trades on well You're talking about something that is Really in front of the entire industry Now and that is changing everything from The vulnerable Antiquated payment system That has been stacked up decade after Decade after decade from the 60s to Where we are today and there is a giant Paradigm shift that's taking place to
Blockchain and distributed Ledger Technology and it is the market Infrastructure that's being built for More than a decade now so that it can be Supported wholesale on the back end for That infrastructure and you know you Made a A point earlier off camera that I Thought was super great and I want you To talk about this that you know it will Not be one you know asset or one Protocol to rule them all this is going To be a multi-chain world and could you Talk about that and who you're working With yeah sure I mean it's a big world You know we estimate I mean you know There's a lot of estimates out there but Every financial asset that exists today Is over one quadrillion you know a Multiple of the three trillion that Exist in standard crypto if you like and That and that's the existing Financial Assets that doesn't count doesn't count All of the new assets that are coming Along so whether it be nfts or metaverse Mortgages or in-game assets whatever it Might be the future Financial Market is Much bigger the chances of their being One chain that everyone uses for Everything is pretty remote you already See some of the chain start to focus on Gaming some of them focusing on bonds Some of them are private some of them Are public whatever it might be
Everyone's going to start developing Their Niche and people are working on Bridges to to kind of bind them together So we don't think it's going to be a one Chain world but we do work with several We tend to be commercially LED um you Know we got friends etherum polygon Algorand hadera Ripple salana tasos Neara all of these guys are talking to Us about a variet variety of projects And I guess you see the kind of you know Ethereum kind of original um lots of People building decentralized Applications questions about scalability And and cost which are kind of being Solved by by layer twos and the like Then you've got the likes of Ripple that Have really you know cemented themselves In payments and they're starting to Expand a bit into the tokenization world As well and then companies like hadera Well who as well who've got this kind of Lowcost model you know really decent Carbon footprint backs by a load of Institutions so you've got this kind of Range out there and all of those chains Have different functionalities built Into them natively or not anyway so You've got a range of services available So I think in over time what you'll see Is assets that require certain Functionality or certain communities Will move in One Direction or the other Well it's such a great uh understanding
For the audience to know that and and I And I've said this too uh our audience We're not xrp Maxis even though we cover That centrically here on the channel We're utility Maxis and if your project Has utility like the projects that you Mentioned we're super excited about them But I do have a question ethereum Recently has been targeted Now by a State agency or a a a agency and it may Be the SEC apparently right and they may Be coming after ethereum now but not Based on the Ico like we've all heard About and talked about but it may be Based on the fact that ethereum is Switching and has switched from proof of Work to proof of stake could you talk About what that implication May mean for You and Arch a if that is something that Comes to fruition what would happen in That Regard yeah there's like a few few Points there good question so rxs in the UK we are fully registered for Cryptocurrencies and we're fully Regulated for security so okay you know High high level ethereum's in this Bucket or this bucket either way arxs Can handle it so that's kind of not an Issue for us directly but obviously There's far reaching implications for People and all of the exchanges it Trades on if it potentially were a Security Now
Um I'm no expert in the UK the Definition of a security is pretty clear Uh and pretty much every regulated Financial instrument whereas in the US Obviously there's the Howe test and it's Much more complicated but my Understanding is that um that that Certain Commodities derivatives have Been built around ethereum and if that Were to happen it would suggest that it Couldn't have been a security so I think There's a lot of arguments for why is Why isn't uh that have been going around For a long time look for me you know and This isn't a legal or Reg later opinion You know a Security in the UK there's a list of Them Equity debt you know certificates Warrants they have certain Characteristics I mean ethereum is Different you know I don't think that it I don't think the the way that is held Or the payoff is the same as what I Would call a security uh at least my own Personal opinion is you know it's a bit A bit of a stretch that it is and I Think there are some technical reasons In the US why actually the way it's been Treated suggests that it wouldn't so you Know it can have far-reaching Implications I think most of what I've Seen in terms of Securities you know the Ones that have been sold there's been a Fine it's been paid people move on I
Don't think I don't think it's going to Be a showstopper by any stretch well and Thank you for that I do appreciate that And that and one you know to clarify for The audience you know I certainly Believe that cryptos themselves the Assets themselves are not Securities It's how they're packaged right so That's for me that's just where I'm Coming from here in the US here just for Clarity for the audience now tell us a Little bit about exactly what archa is Doing so just lay that out like your Vision there and then we'll build out The next part of this conversation from That yeah sure so I guess um we started Kind of you know if you imagine summer 17 loads of icos happening and we'd we'd Already been looking at crypto for some While and back in summer 17 you're Seeing all these icos and you're hearing All this stuff about this looks like a Security and I kind of with the team Start thinking okay what if is a Security why does it matter what does it Matter and then and then the conclusion You come to okay well probably some of These are and over time we started to Think this technology is going to Replace everything it's so powerful There's so many efficiency gains there That that it means that some will be Securities and you need to have Regulated parties that are capable of
Holding Securities and that can face off Against all these big institutions so Kind of whole idea about ARX is if you Want to do something in crypto as an Institution then then we're the Incredible partner to go to so what We've been doing over the last six years Is really expanding that regulatory Footprint whilst building out all of our Own technology so we've got a full Tokenization engine on most of those Chains that I mentioned earlier we can Raise money for companies we're a fully Regulated custodian and a qualified Custodian in the US we have a full Secondary market for crypto and for Securities so you really can come to us And pretty much do everything and we're The only company I know in the world That's actually building a digital Central Securities depository as well so Like the TC and Euro clear we have a Company called montis is applied in Luxembourg and hopefully we're getting Pretty close to having that license as Well so the kind of you know the Challenge for artx from the start has Been okay moving the financial services Market and everything it's going to be Pretty difficult actually what's a lot Faster is if you build all the bits Yourself so you're totally self-reliant That's kind of where we are well that's An amazing breakdown right there and
Super exciting what you're doing and That you want to be this Allinone build it yourself so you're not Having to rely on these outside entities But you touch on something that macro Wise I want the audience to understand Too which is crypto the market of Cryptocurrency is a very very small Market it's what everybody thinks about Today but the larger market is the Traditional markets that you're Highlighting and the ability to tokenize Those markets and that's exactly what You're building for and that's an Amazing idea and and understanding of What Arch ax is doing and building Theirself to provide But let's talk about this because in Order to get all of this value moved Around it has to be tokenized and then In a lot of cases we need to see Central Bank digital currencies and stable coins In a regulated framework right around The globe to interact and move all of This value how far away do you feel like That is for for for us Graah Uh good question so I guess you know That one of the one of the appeals of Why digital is taking over everything For me is that if you think about the Current world you've got assets on one Type of technology and then you've got Fear on another type of technology and
It's hard for them to talk like you can Automate Bank feeds sure but what you Really want is a contract that sits There and says you know if I receive Security and if I receive cash from that Side then I deliver and so having Digital cash is useful and obviously the Likes of tther and circle have done well At getting their stable coins out so we Can kind of see that it works that Automation works and some some of the E-money rules across Europe and the Money transmission rules across the US And all payments regulation globally They kind of have dealt with this a Little bit anyway but I think um you Know what's been missing somewhat is the Kind of control framework around that How much do we trust these stable coins So what Central Bank digital currencies In theory offer you is is trust the Trust that this is actually backed by Something by a central government now What I've seen from most Central Bank Digital currencies is that they don't Want to be able to distribute to to Everyone they just want to be able to Distribute them to commercial Banks and Then the commercial banks in turn are Going to have to distribute their own Currencies backed by the Central Bank Digital currency so like we're probably A long way away from this kind of Globally transferable currency however I
Would say alongside that and what people Don't talk enough about is you know I'm Not like a deep Economist but what I Mean when I say what is Cash is how I Think about it is if I want to go and Buy Bitcoin or vone I have toay with Cash or a stable coin but you know we've Tokenized the abedine money market fund Recently it trades at a value of one now Let's assume that everyone accepts that As eligible collateral well I can go and Buy Bitcoin with the tokenized money Market fund or vone as well do I really Care about the Central Bank digital Currency as long as both parties are Accepting there's pretty good collateral After this has a value of one and we Know it's held by regulated entity maybe We don't need those cash legs at all so We um one of the advantages of having This regulated and unregulated on our Platform is that we can start playing With stuff like this so we are going to Launch a market where you can buy Bitcoin with tokenized money market Funds we are enabling people to be able To transfer collateral as tokenized Money market funds we think the uses of Cash are going to be slightly different In the future um one of the examples I Always give if it's interesting is that That in the old um fund that I used to Work at if you imagine at the end of the Day you've got a large cash balance you
Can you can choose to leave your cash Balance at the bank and maybe you're Taking some Bank risk or you can sweep It into a money market fund or Equivalent but then when it's in the Fund you can't really spend it or use it So you're kind of giving up Usability you know in in exchange for a Reduced perceived risk but but actually If you can put it in the money market Fund and still spend it use it transfer It the same then you've kind of got rid A lot that Bank cash risk and instead You've got Asset Risk which is usually Held in more of an insolvency remote Vehicle so arguably you can get a lot of The transferability and usability of Cash but just using it with with assets Instead well when you you start talking About you know being able to trade and Settle transactions that aren't Fiat to Something like a regular purchase in our Day and age now you really start talking About the power of this technology and How it can make markets in a way that is Not possible today and that is super Super exciting because this will Contribute I believe to the way you Described it to the velocity of money Moving hands around the world and it's a Very important time that we see the Veloc velocity of money come up quickly Because there's been so much of it Printed around the world but being able
To make these transactions from using a Money market fund or selling my Apple Stock to go buy this instead these Things are things that are not quite There today what will you be using are You going to use something like a Decentralized ledger of xrp Ledger uh The decentralized Exchange what what do You use to make those New Market trades And settlements so um uh so on our Tokenization engine we can tokenize on On several chains already so uh Tokenized money market funds we actually Already have on hyera uh and ethereum um And actually we've just released a Functionality for xrpl as well so we're Going to have it all available on those Chains when someone comes to trade on Artx currently we have a centralized Exchange um you know which is the reason For that is not because we're not pro BLT the reason for that is just that Usually when you're building a central Liit order book Chains can't keep up up With the speed you need to be able to Cancel orders you don't want to pay fees Unnecessarily uh nonetheless um we've Also got a kind of um decentralized Exchange that we've just built um but We're not yet using so that people can Put liquidity pools together and be able To trade pairs as well and I guess the Way that we're thinking you know the Beautiful thing about crypto is because
Of the absence of Regulation it's been More easier to develop liquidity because You've got a bunch of market makers you Can give them inventory give them some Cash incentivize them with tokens and Away they go and they can use the Communities that are being developed to Start to develop some liquidity when you Get into the Securities world you can't Give them tokens at a pre-sale price and Say hey go make me markets on these 27 Exchanges every exchange needs to be Regulated every Market maker needs to be Regulated usually needs to be connected Into csds Clearing Houses whatever so It's very different to kind of have that Liquidity however you can usually create Some sort of secondary Market that's Appropriate so it might not always be a Central limit order book which is like The exchanges most of us think about it Might be a bulletin board PSP trading or Some sort of auction or some sort of RFQ Um process but there will be a place Where all of these Securities can trade Oh that is so wonderful and I can't wait I feel like we're closer now than ever Even though I know here in the United States we're still a laggard as far as Waiting for regulations and legislative Clarity but I do remind the audience That 90% % of transactions done Digitally in the world are done using a Digital dollar of some sort so if we get
That Clarity we are the leader in this Space when it comes to transactions Right but we need that official Clarity And I think credential regulation to Ensure that the Surplus and the backing Of any digital asset you know should be There if it's going to be used as a Stable coin now looking forward you know You talk about these repositories of Dtcc and other set settling uh uh Companies There's a lot of money in these places And there is a lot of tokenization that Needs to happen there what does this Market look like in size now I know Recently not long ago you were at uh Swell in Dubai for ripple and you made Some comments that went Wildfire across Crypto Twitter and certainly in the Ripple xrp space now they were they were Exciting because of the size of Volume please let everybody know what You were think thinking and saying and Again it doesn't mean you're like Talking about just one Ledger we're Talking about multiple ledgers everybody Certainly in our audience here Understands it's going to be a multi-leg World after all But what gets you so excited about the Amount of volume tell people about the Volume you you see coming and what it is That makes you so bullish on that volume Coming yeah did you know if I might give
A bit of a you know backstory to all of This is you know and I was part of this As as well for the last six years of Building ARX we kind of we what's Happening now we've kind of said from The start and the first few years were Spent with everyone saying okay there's No stos where are the stos and Everyone's looking for these new assets To be created and we're partly guilty of This as well looking at the stos being Created going and assessing them and Going okay when's the good products Going to come and then it kind of like At some point slaps you in the face that Like most people that want a security Have already created the security this Is just the technology this is just the Technology upon which all current and Future Securities are going to be based So once you realize that you realize Okay it's not that stos won't be liquid It's that it's that stos are just Securities and they already exist on ult Technology now kind of take that thought Forwards and go okay well when are they Going to reach mainstream and critical Mass well if you look into DTC Euro Clear you know I don't what the numbers Is but there's trillions of assets and Let's say there's 100 trillion in one of Them for argument sake now let's say Let's say Euro clear has 100 trillion I Don't what the number is let's say it
Has 100 trillion of assets right there On its old database but at the moment Let's imagine in parallel it's been Running an ethereum node and decides to Switch it all over tomorrow night Overnight every single one of those Assets is now on chain every single one Of those assets is now an st a digital Rwa whatever you want to call it so it's Not that I'm saying you know 30 to 50 Trillion or whatever I said is suddenly Going to appear out of people tokenizing Hotel results and watches and things That had never been tokenized before I'm Saying those assets that exist right now Are all moving on chain I mean there was An announcement yesterday securitized Great move working with black rock Working on a digital fund looks like That's going to have 50 to 100 million In it uh $5 million tickets like that's One product that's existing that's Existing today uh on our side we've Tokenized the aine money market fund We've got a few other investment Managers we're going to be announcing Shortly we've got about 3 to 400 million Of pipeline um coming into our PL that's Nearly half a billion into our checks Already from a new type of Market we Created and we speak to every Bank out There in some form or another you know Banks I've never even heard of frankly Before I started archex speaking to us
About how do we tokenize things in the Future how do we tokenize our deposits How can we use one of these as Collateral how do we pay on chain Interest everyone's thinking about how This is going to happen so you know the The the the US I would agree is Seemingly been a bit behind or or or a Bit confused let's say on the regulation But you know fair play to to Black Rock And everyone else flying the ETF Flags Once those Bitcoin ETFs came into place That pretty much said forever this asset Class is in place and once you start Realizing that you know maybe Bitcoin is A different use case but when you start Looking at ethereum and all of the other Chains that people have building on once Those ETFs appear you realize that People were saying that this is the Infrastructure of the future so Everyone's already building on this Stuff everyone knows that they is that They are the only thing I might be wrong On is the timing but absolutely I'm Convinced every single financial asset Is moving on chain well you bring up Such a fantastic point when you think About it's more than a decade most of These protocols that you're mentioning Whether it's ethereum or xrp or harar or These other protocols Stellar you know Uh tokenizing treasuries to a large Degree already you know uh this early
Into the game when I think about that That is the like you know I'm a macro Investor in this space so when I'm Thinking about these things I'm looking At like where the trend is going and I I Think you know it's more than a decade That these companies have been working And building the market infrastructure To tokenize all of this and as you said You know and I would certainly imagine That there's plenty of simulation data That's done by these companies and Protocols and Banks and financial Institutions to ensure that they're Running side by side just like Swift is Running a coexisting phase today with Iso20022 running in a coexisting phase With the old payment rails is that Something that you see quite a bit in This space back In yeah the the the I don't think anyone Really wants to run parallel systems but The reality is you need to take everyone On a journey like RX didn't want to Build the whole ecosystem and we've just Done it to because it speeds things up On our side rather than waiting for the Institutions if you speak to those Banks Especially the the the guys the kind of You know the blockchain Innovation desk They all want this to happen as well However they go back into their desk and They speak to their Ops Team and they're Like look we need to receive a whatever
Mt XXX notification for every Transaction so you kind of got this World where the the two need to talk Together you know I think of it like Parallel running of any new system so so That's fine so I think if you kind of Fly out of the gates we hey we've got This great Tech solution of how clearing And csds work in the future that's great And you might make a good business and Have some good Innovation but you'll Probably have more success if you just Take a little moment to see if you can Make that interoperate with the existing System and help to take some of the Current players on a journey and that's What we've been trying to do throughout Our history is say look we kind of we Appreciate all the guys innovating in Defi and that's that's really cool but If we rock up at the fca's door and say Hey you know what you know we've got a Liquidity pool churning out 24% yield Where everyone can contribute any pair They want just going to say you know how Does that all work whereas if you if you Kind of go it gradually saying okay this Is what we're doing and this is the Regulation it's in line with and it's Currently permissioned and over time We're going to do this everyone's a bit More willing to go on that Journey with You so hopefully you end up with Something a bit more scalable with
Overtime more of the more of the large Traditional players coming with you oh That's a great Point Graham rodford hey Final thought this thing for us Graham I Could talk to you all day but I know you Got things to do and I don't want to Keep you from your family and the work You got to do but I love speaking with You but tell us you know in a final Thought here what does this space look Like what does arch ax look like to you What do you perceive like you know the Ripples the xrps the har bars right Encompassing the multi- chain world what Does this look like to you in 2025 how Big has this market look to you oh 2025 I mean 2025 is quite soon you know in my Original business plan I probably had All the world on Chain by now but you Know 20 2025 I think um I think assets Are going to develop more utility um and I and I like the idea that companies can Raise money from anyone and anyone can Invest in anything that's kind of a you Know that's a little bit of a you know I Don't like democratization but I like This idea that making everything more Accessible so um and I think when you've Got a world where people can use any Item as collateral and borrow against it You make things potentially more Affordable you know if I'm If I'm like a you know an investor Sitting there on my I don't know
$110,000 of odod Phone Stock and I need To you know make my mortgage payment This month wouldn't it be great if I Could just go to an online platform like RV or compound and borrow against my Vone shares without having to sell them Just to make my mortgage payment and if I and if I can't repay it then I get Closed out and it and it's all good I'm No worse off but I've actually got that Option there whereas at the moment what Do I do if I want to get out of my vo Phone position well I go onto my broker Probably you know end up paying a 25 fee And paying a spread even though everyone Tells me that it's a zero fees place I Then get stung for capital gains tax I've then got to pay stamp Duty on when I get back into the position and pay Another fee on the on the way back in You know I need to find a provider to do It go through there and okay I see like You know that's a pain it's a real Friction for everyone but if I can even If I need a mortgage I want to be able To everyone in the world can offer me a Mortgage R if my collateral is there my House is sitting as an nft and people Know for sure you know IR you know That's absolute proof that I own that Plot of land it's worth a certain amount They're willing to lend us an am out Against it you know the whole world can Provide these financial services and
That's what that's what um I think D5 Shown us so the world's going to move Into a decentralized way you know we Lead we need fewer and fewer Institutions but by next year I'm just Hoping that we've got you know a number Of credible products and the world Increasingly is saying that all of this Stuff is moving on chain All right so Graham you're going to Final thought this thing for real this Time tell us what you're seeing for the Future here when it comes to being on Chain in the traditional Finance world Yeah like it's uh it's going to take a While you know it's taken you know ARX Has been around six years but but you Know whereas in the past maybe we were Kind of standing on the beach telling Everyone our waves coming but couldn't See it everyone sees it now you know I Think yesterday we had three Tokenization projects not least of which Was the securitizing Black Rock one so It's here to stay now so what we say to People is like look you know you don't Necessarily have to go okay we're going To make money in this one specific area All you really need to do is believe That the whole of the financial Market Globally is moving on chain and if you Believe that then build for it pick a Lane and you're almost certain to find The money- making opportunity there well
There it is right there from Graham Raford the CEO of archa Graham I want to Thank you so much don't go anywhere Graham raford ARX thanks so much thank You thank you
