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Welcome back to the show everybody we've Got Brad Garling house at Davos at the World economic Forum talking about Crypto at a Crossroads we got that Somebody roll that beautiful [Music] [Applause] Intro digital perspectives with Brad KES Come on [Applause] In Welcome back to the show you can follow Us on Twitter and YouTube for exclusive Content right now $ 1.77 trillion do Market cap for crypto the market is off By 0.1% the last 24 we see 42,600 plus Right now for Bitcoin 2,500 Plus for Ethereum we see 94.9 billion plus from market cap for Tether and we see xrp right now at 57 C At the number six spot off by 7 and the 24 and we see off by 1.1 on the 7 day Let's get into the range of price very Quickly which is 56 on the 57 on the top We're trading in a nice tight range There about a penny and a half we'll Keep an eye on it right ladies and Gentlemen link to coming to the platform This week I hear are some pretty big Companies that we all like to get Private equity for keep a lookout for Circle and ripple ladies and gentlemen I Tell you and there's 641 th000 other Registered users keeping a look out for
It too so do not mess round because You're going to want to click that link From my sponsor underneath the video it Takes probably 3 minutes to sign up and Register and then to fund your account It is super smooth experience you won't Believe it and you got access to the Best private equity in the whole wi World that is a fact Jack and I tell you What nobody has more affordable minimums To get started in private Equity than Link to that's how they do it make sure You click the link to my sponsor uh this Is an update from Ron Hamond but you Know what we need to jump past this very Quickly here because I want to get us to Where we need to be today there's quite A bit of content coming out of the world Economic Forum uh and Davos so let's go Here and I want to play this in its Entirety because it's a fantastic Interview it is Brad garlinghouse Sitting down discussing uh crypto at a Crossroads future proofing digital Assets this is a fantastic conversation I'm going to let it play in its entirety There's no real need to interrupt it but I want to make sure that you have access To it That may be accelerated but we are in This moment and so commissioner fan I'm Interested to know what other governance Do you think needs to be addressed now In this you know adolescence if you will
That we're going through so I think the Point about uh how do we address Market Fragmentation potentially as different Jurisdictions are taking different Approaches to regulating uh blockchain Technology and crypto and I think it's The same as any asset class as as Global Markets in any asset class so You do need to think about ways to Mitigate Market fragmentation through Promoting regulatory cohesion I think Multilateral engagement through uh Bodies like the financial stability Board iosco and the bis are very Productive and in fact I've actually uh Proposed a cftc pilot program that could Be a path forward to having something Like a bis style Innovation Hub project In the US and I think that could help to Move the needle forward to safely Experiment and gather to study what the Effects of this technology are well That's a good transition for you Brad Because for many the speculative cases Are the prominent cases what do you Think are some examples of Non-speculative CA use cases and um you Know how do we distinguish when drafting Policy on those well a lot of times on The policy piece you know we talk about Drafting new kind of new rules and it's Like well it's not often we develop Rules for technology we typically Develop rules and laws around the
Outputs right so things like kyc you Know your customer that doesn't change Just because you're using crypto money Laundering anti-money laundering laws That doesn't change because you're using Crypto so I don't think we need to think About those as some somehow separate and Distinct we need to make sure those are Being applied and frankly as we saw with The binance settlement they are maybe it Was slow and frustratingly as Commissioner fam pointed out you know The courts in the United States have Moved faster than the regulator uh that That is not way ad my that is not normal That is not normal uh I mean I'm glad The courts are actually getting there But you know it'd be better I think if We had and primarily speaking of the SEC To actually take the time to you know I Remember they opened up a whole bunch of New job offer or uh job descriptions on Their website lawyers to Prosecute litigation you know Enforcement through you know litigation Like why not hire people to actually Cautify how this should work as the UK Has as the European Union has as the UAE Has with Vara uh I'll also give Commissioner fam props you know she Spent time going around the world and Meeting with a lot of these other Regulators where it's this is not rocket Science you know uh we you could
Probably type into Sam's open AI how do You regulate the US and get a better Answer than we're getting from the SEC uh babbe I haven't tried that Actually actually Try anyway look I I I he's got some Great zingers the amazing thing is I Really do feel like the US should and Could be a leader in this market and There are a lot of companies that are Leading but uh the US US government has Not yet been providing that framework That that should help yeah and I think To pick up on points that both of you Raised I I think we need to get over the Fact that if you are engaging an Activity that involves money banking or Markets of course you're going to be Subject to financial regulation but what I think is more interesting is how do we Address non-financial activities how do We distinguish between what is financial Activity and Commercial activity so I'll Give you an example Amazon and eBay are Digital marketplaces but nobody thinks That they should be regulated like Securities exchanges so I think we need To focus on that set of laws and I Actually think a big way to move the Needle forward in the United States is If we developed a definition for utility Token like other jurisdictions as Brad Has noted have that's I think a step Forward to understanding how this is
Going to impact the real economy let's Talk about the two kinds of investors in This situation you have retail investors And you have more sophisticated Investors what are the implications of Focusing more of this conversation on The sophisticated investors versus the Retail investors list so I think what's Great about the cftc's uh framework Regulatory framework is that it's Principles based and if you look at Bodies like FSB and like iosco they also Take a principles based approach because Of course every jurisdiction needs to Take their National laws into Consideration well the benefits of Having a principle-based Regulatory framework is that it works For both sophisticated investors and it Protects retail investors and I think The benefits of a principles spaced Framework is also that it allows Regulators to anticipate and adapt to New and emerging risks because as we've All seen the rul making process can be Bogged down it can be halted the courts Can overturn it it takes a long time and It should take a long time there should Be opportunity for public consultation And notice and comment Uh but at the same time there's a lot of Other tools that Regulators already have Today there's the uh the power to Inspector examine the power to uh
Enforce as we've discussed and the power To regulate and I think those are broad Authorities we should be using all Three so you know getting into crypto And blockchain and leveraging the Technology Ripple set out to modernize Payments by building blockchainbased Financial infrastructure that vastly Improved on much of what the world uses Today so Brad are payments still the Best use case for crypto assets and Technology that under grids it and what Payments can lead to in terms of other Use cases well for me I mean Ripple Started with payments uh actually when I Joined the company nine years ago there Were three different groups within the Company working on an identity solution A payment solution uh and I'm forgetting The third one right now because that was A long time ago but we really is like Hey let's focus on one where there's Clear it's solving a real problem and Look while we've had a dent uh maybe We've made a scratch in that market it Is a massive market and I'm sure many People by virtue of sitting in this room In Switzerland today have had the Experience of sending money overseas it Is still high friction High error rate It's slow it's expensive and you know That's the opportunity to use these Technologies to actually make it much Simpler much faster without sacrificing
Some of the core principles around kyc Or AML or what have you so I think the Payments opportunity remains very large Uh it will continue to make progress When I say that I mean both Ripple and The industry at large there's other People approaching in different you know Some are going after consumer based Solutions Ripple's very much focused on Enterprise uh and the infrastructure Around that there are I think going to Be other use cases that are profound uh You know I think the fact that there's Now an ETF approved in the United States With major institutions like Black Rock Leaning in is uh further validation but I think we need to make sure that we're Focused on utility uh some of the things I'm sure that people in this room have Heard talked about you know tokenization Of real world assets and democratizing Access to the participation in those Markets I think is very real uh whether That's commercial real estate uh you Know and some are working on identity Based Solutions and even you know voting Based Solutions I'm certainly not an Expert on those things but I I think the The blockchainbased solutions are are Here to stay and uh I think in the Coming years you'll see more and more Real world use cases gaining traction Well you're getting into the space of Innovation which I want to shift and ask
You you know regulation often can sty Innovation and I'm curious from your Point of view how do you think this Opportunity um for policy to enable and Optimize the technology as opposed to be Restrictive and smother new use cases Because we're entering a whole new Dynamic of considering how To deal with these kind of assets this Is such an important question so as Brad Mentioned I did a global stocktaking Exercise to go and engage with other Jurisdictions and understand how do they Facilitate Innovation and so what I've Observed is that there are the three key Ingredients that you need in order to Foster Innovation so one the rule of law Two political stability three regulatory Clarity and so I think it's incumbent Upon Regulators to to do our part and You know right now with the the W Global Risks report says that there are I think Over half of survey respondents that see A moderate risk of global catastrophe in The next uh 10 Years that's a big deal that's why we're All here right in Davos and so when you Look at the four main structural forces That are driving this change climate Population technology and geopolitical If all of this is changing Our Lives Then we Regulators need to be looking to The future we need to be trying to Future proof I've spent my career
Actually my career has been defined by Uh studying and addressing crises Whether it's the the 90s Savings and Loan crisis the 2008 financial crisis or The covid-19 pandemic all of that has Taught me that uh regulators and Sometimes United States have a tendency To be reactive we need to flip that Around and be proactive and so in being Proactive Um what are the things that we can do we Can engage we can engage in uh with Subject matter experts and we can also Engage by building capacity at Regulators as well so we can actually Understand how this is deployed and used Now I want you to keep listening to the To because the suggestion is going to Come that artificial intelligence work On these blockchains here in the next Minute or so take a keep listening so to Both of you um with regard to AI in what Ways do you think AI might impact this Industry's trajectory jump all I I I'll Start on that one I mean look I think Anytime you have a very nent technology And you this was true in previous years With crypto here at Davos you know Davos Someone said to me earlier today like DAV uh crypto become boring at Davos Because it's all about Ai and I think That's actually a natural progression of A a very promising very exciting new Technology and I I think you know AI is
Starting that journey and there will be Regulatory hiccups and hurdles you're Seeing some of those uh you know I think There will be a need to clarify you know What are the real utility and how what Are the business models around that how They're going to be applied but Obviously I think AI is an extremely Promising technology I just think it's It's going to go through its Journey uh And the kind of Technology hype cycle We're we're early in that and uh that's That's part of the excitement and the Opportunity yeah and you know I'll Address it from a Market's perspective So markets are driven by uh efficient Markets are driven by information AI Enables uh the ingestion the um Processing and the analysis of Tremendous amounts of data and Information and so I think it's going to Be interesting to see how Market Structure might evolve over the next Coming years as more and more AI Deployed just the same way that Algorithmic Trading Uh changed how markets uh Market Structure worked and then I think uh of Course since I have a legal and Compliance background and I am a Regulator I've been very interested in The applications of AI to Reg Tech I've Been very interested in the applications Of AI to Reg Tech so I think that there
Are immediate gains um that people are Working on and that Regulators can use And adopt around using AI to improve Market surveillance so just the way YouTube uses Ai and an algorithm to Sweep for certain key words and things Of that nature to censor and all that Stuff you could have ai in a program and An algorithm surfing across these Blockchains looking for suspicious Activity now this gets into the idea and Understanding of what Chris Gio Gian Carlo has talked about with Brian Brooks Before where you need to switch the Regulator's perspective from regulating Entities to regulating activities the Same way a cop does on the highway they Don't regulate The Entity until there's A suspicious activity that needs to pull You over for speeding or reckless Driving or drunk driving right and then They check the entity to see if you're Properly regulated do you have a license Do you have registration do you have Insurance but they just don't check that When you get up and get in your car in The morning right this is the position Change that needs to happen and if you Can get it right and they don't do it The wrong way I think you can absolutely Take this Market in a very quick way way In a very regulated way where it's Intended to Go so you mentioned um that a lot of
Countries outside of the United States Had really been more Progressive in this And you shared that in your research you Spent time and you went to all of these Different countries when you reflect on Your research and evolution of the work That you've done and what you've gone Through and ripple and defending and Trying to clarify where you are I'm Curious for me each of you what do you Think are the biggest lessons we've Learned in the last year from your Respective positions commissioner fan Let's start with you well I think uh and It's no surprise as we've talked about The the US is the world's largest market But the rest of the market is even Larger um but it is true that smaller And more Nimble uh countries like Singapore and the UAE have been able to I think address the adoption of Technology in whatever sector probably In a um a more pragmatic way uh in the US uh things tend to get framed as sort Of good versus evil uh we have that but Technology at least I think is not evil It's how you use it um but I think uh Similar to what PE what Brad was saying Earlier right uh there have been strong Headwinds but I've heard that there are Green shoots coming but nonetheless Particularly if you're in financial Services I think what we've seen is that Risk management must be at the core of
Your Business I I'll just Echo I I think that You know to the extent that there have Been self-inflicted wounds around crypto It is somewhat around the the risk Management but I I think like the the Opportunity ahead both around crypto and Getting clear rules of the road uh it Will get there it's just frustrating That it has been slow and painful and I Think look I think with an election Coming in the United States uh there Will be some changes that happen I don't I think the current chair of the SEC I Think has been exercising a political Agenda not a good policy agenda and uh I Think that will shift uh just a question Of when and how uh so we'll see what Happens well that concludes the Conversation and I know there's another One coming that everyone's really Excited about but well there is and You're going to hear it later today Because I'm putting together another Interview of Brad garlinghouse at Davos That you're absolutely going to want to See a not miss moment and I tell you This had some really great stuff in here Uh the AI from the new regulator is uh The new regulator is really standing out To me that's where this is headed and You could see that that uh for me that Foreshadowing took place today in this Interview not just for Brad garlinghouse
But from Caroline fan from the cftc all Right everybody I'll catch all of you on The next One
